A couple of Wiz questions.

[Sinaefay]

Insightful reflexes is definitely a feat to consider, as you will get a lot of aggro as a wizard and will thus be targeted when in EEs (EHs isnt a problem).

Having high spell penetration is a must for a wizard, IMO. I have 49 or 50 on Nalf atm, and that works very well in EEs of any kind. With high Spell Pen you can easily get debuffs (crushing despair, waves of exhaustion, energy drain) to hit, and allows you to get your DC spells to stick.
I use the draconic destiny as my main destiny on Nalf, and he has twisted the Fate Singer Echoes of the Ancients: Magister (+1 int, +2 spell pen, +1 umd and more), +3 necro DC from Magister, and Endless Faith from Exalted Angel.

Nalf has 53-54 Necro DC, 44-45 Ench DC and that is often enough thanks to using debuffs that lower mobs saves (crushing despair, hypno, energy drain).

[Ispepxam]

Sorry for hijacking this thread Ryan, but being relatively inexperienced on the caster side of DDO I have a question as well.
Is there somewhere you can see the Spell pen and/or DC’s? Or, do you just work them out based on your stats, buffs, items, etc.?
At them moment my artificer and Cleric are my main casters, but I have no idea about their stats when it comes to DC’s or spell pen. I normally throw out a blade barrier from both and watch the carnage…Probably time to pay a little more attention when it comes to high end EE content I suppose…

[Legend]

I had to get rid of Insightful Reflexes on the PM as even being human could not fit in all the relevant caster feats I needed, tbh I have not noticed that much of a difference even on ee by not having really high reflex.
Like Jan said Spell Pen is an absolute must, should aim for Epic Spell Pen at the epic levels and is lot easier now to have +3 from a greater spell pen item 9.
For the ee quests I tend to go magister and twist in Fate Singer – Magister, +1 Int from Shadowdancer and Endless Faith, as human can then sit on Int of 58 with necro dc of 54, spell pen high too, all other difficulty quests I have found Draconic nice with the area damage, dc not very important.
At lvl 25 u really should be able to reach minimum of 52 dc on favoured spell school, more once have gear and are specced.

With regards to the Wiz, Int at that lvl is possible, ie.

Drow:
20 base
+4 Tome
+4 levels
+9 items (6+1+2)
+2 Ship
+2 Lich Form
+3 Enhancements
= 44

Ispep, u can see spell dc when u hover over the spell, you can find spell pen by just looking at your rolls against a mob with sr, am unsure if at mo spell pen is listed somewhere on character sheet.

[CaT]

I second the others about the need to have high DCs/SP if you are necro/ench specced. Of course if you go Shiradi/evocation route (which apparently is the easiest route for owning eE content even when soloing nowadays) you basically don’t need any SP at all and maybe some DC, but procs are more important than mobs making their reflex saves.

Now, in regard to BBs they don’t require a SP check, but they do need a DC (evocation) check so this is important since some mobs have buffed saves or even *gasp* improved evasion, so unless your DC/enhancements/equipment is top notch it does became tedious at least.

If you want to check your SP relatively easily go to either Amrath wilderness (devils) or Underdark wilderness (drow) this comes to my mind first and cast some relevant spells while watching the dice. It should be relatively easy to pinpoint where is the breaking point. The mobs SR is generally 10+CR (CR is found in the focus orb when selecting it). From here on is just a matter of trial and error.

Speaking of builds maybe Jan and Legend could find some time to list their character build along with the gear, enhancements and EDs/twists they are using. Maybe some strategy/spells they usually attempt in certain circumstances. I am sure most would love to see their play style on paper

[Legend]

Can post basics of build, with gear and feats which will prob be most helpful:
Human PM Wiz
Max Con and Int at first lvl, Increase Int every 4 levels.
Feats:
Toughness – Def worth it for extra hp
Spell Focus/Greater Spell focus and Epic Spell Focus: Necro
Spell Pen/Greater Spell Pen, Epic Spell Pen
Empower, Extend, Heighten, Maximize, Quicken
Insightful Reflexes (do seem to have!)
Past Life: Arcane Initiate

Gear:
Head Minos – Still pretty handy, but can replace if another future item suits
Neck – Epic Torc (a must)
Trinket – +3 Int focus or Erudition
Cloak – Tier 3 epic cloak of flames (with slooted toughness if get rid of helm) this is another item can get rid of eventually, but will need a max fire lore item somewhere.
Belt – Epic Lion Headed (would be this or Belt of Mror)
Rings – Epic Ring of Mire (gr8 ring, decent for any caster), Sanuras band (spare ring slot as only use for +2 con, once see a ring that suits will remove)
Gloves: Greensteel Dual of Ash with hp and w/enervation guard, procs quite a bit
Boots: Greensteel Dual sp of Conc Opp
Bracers: Epic Bracers of Demon Consort (must for an end game PM)
Goggles: +8 Int, can swap out if get Int elsewhere
Robes: Lvl 24 Robe of Shadow (imo best for a PM, but lots of other options)
Hands: Twilight (upgraded to have trinket benefits, will prob give it 120 fire once superior fire lore item can be put in somewhere)

EE Tactics: Magister, max to dc 54 self, FOD, Power Word Kill/Stun, Ottos with Symbol of Death inside if time, Energy Drain, Circle of Death great spell, have found Wail of Banshee not great recently.Necrotic Ray and Ottos/mass hold for cc
EH and easier: Draconic Destiny with blasts/auras etc… just mass kill everything whilst blitzing, fw to get aggro etc…. get 3 dots on bosses with a FW

I chose fire as my element as PM weak on undead and fire effective spell there for dps, for enhancements I went lvl 6 Flame Manip with crits a couple in force and 1 of each in other elements (cheap costs and extra 40 def worth it) max spell pen and Int etc…

So at mo have quite a bit of movement in my gear if something new comes out or if I loot a couple of specific named.

[Sinaefay]

Nalf started with these stats (he’s a drow): Str: 08, Dex: 10, Con: 14, Int: 20, Wis: 10, Cha: 14. All level ups went into int. He’s an archmage, and I aimed at heal scroll usage without fail at 25 (which I now have).

Feats:
1: Toughness
1B: Extend Spell
3: Arcane Initiate
5B: Spell Focus: Enchantment
6: Mental Toughness
9: Maximize Spell
10B: Spell Focus Necromancy
12: Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
15: Spell Penetration
15B:Heighten Spell
18: Greater Spell Penetration
20B: Quicken Spell
21: Epic spell penetration
24: Epic spell focus: Necro

Nalf dont have insightful reflexes now but once we get another feat, he will get it. Nalf’s reflex save is just above 40 with all buffs he can get on his own, which is a bit lacking in some ee quests.

Nalf’s gear differs alot to Legend’s, as can be seen. This is mainly due to Nalf being an archmage.

Goggles: Intricate Field Optics – Spot +20, True Seeing, insightful +3 int, Epic Globe of Imperial Blood (Colorless Augment Slot), +7 resistance (Green Augment Slot)

Helmet: Greensteel – Min 2 45 hp w hvy fort

Necklace: Noxious Embers (gr arcane lore, lsr maximize 3/day) or Torc of Prince Raiyum-de II

Trinket: Litany of the Dead

cloak: Epic Cloak of Flames – Combustion 90, Superior Fire Lore, Heightened Awareness IV, Fire Absorption 20%, Fire Shield (Hot), Inherent (10) Fire Resistance, +7 cha (Colorless Augment Slot), + 35 hp (Blue Augment Slot)

Belt: Belt of the Seven Ideals – Potency +80, Greater Spell Penetration IX, +14 PRR (Green Augment Slot), +2 insight cha (Colorless Augment Slot)

Gloves: Purple Dragon Gauntlets – Strength +7, Exceptional Constitution +2, Healing Amplification +30

Boots: Treads of Falling Shadows – Striding 30%, Ghostly, Dexterity +7, Ins Dexterity +2

LH Ring: Ring of Djinni – Electrical Absorption 33%, Sovereign Lightning Resistance, DR 15/Lawful

RH Ring: Epic Ring of the Buccaneer – Good Luck +2, Dexterity +7, Swim +15, U/W Action, Protection +5, (Empty Green Augment Slot)

Bracers: Greensteel – Con Opp spell points

Armor: Robe – Spidersilk Robes – +8 Intelligence, Armor Bonus +9, Potency, Wizardry IX, Resistance +6, Concentration +15, Toughness

Hands: Alchemical dagger with Impulse 90, Sup kinetic lore, Combustion 90, Magma Surge Guard, Superior Ice Lore, Greater Freeze (+20) 3x charges, Efficient Metamagic – Maximize II, Greater Evocation Focus, Arcane Augmentation IX and Wizard ward (ee) with glaciation 120, or a onehander with +3 Necro or Enchantment DC.

I only use draconic as destiny, with the Fatesinger Magister Echoe, Magister +3 Necro dC and Exalted Angel Endless Faith (more sp) as twists. In ee’s, I rely a lot on debuffing mobs before casting anything. Hypno (archmage SLA) and Crushing despair to lower saves, together with solid fogs (-5 reflex inside), mass hold monster to get +50% from helpless state before using energy burst or other dps spells.
Nalf is focused on cold as main element, with fire and force as 2nd.

[Ryan]

Thank you all for the replies..

Some really useful information in there there.

I clearly have some way to go with regards to gearing Mantrax and should perhaps dedicate his current life (3rd Wiz) to gearing him and forget about EE until I can get his spell pen up (perhaps a FvS life or two before his final Wiz life) although this would require serious consideration as I don’t really like FvS.

Does Spell Pen increase with Epic levels?

Could you provide a break down of your Spell Pen so I can use that to roughly work out what I will achieve this life.

and finally, I know SR for mobs is approx CR + 10ish but I cant remember the CR of EE mobs

And finally, finally – Crushing Despair – I cast this unHeightened as I only want the Will save debuff and I believe this debuff works even if the mob saves. Is this correct?

My last “finally” is – when I have mobs “Danced” I continue to cast Hypno on them in the hope it keeps their Will saves debuffed – is this correct or am I wasting my time?

Finally – thankyou

[Sinaefay]

I find 3 wizard levels to perfectly fine for spell penetration purposes. If you still want to TR him, go for a class that gives you a bonus on a spell school DC in that case (cleric for conjuration, sorcerer for evocation).

20 (wiz levels)
05 (destiny levels)
06 (3 wiz past lifes)
02 (Spell penetration feat)
02 (Greater Spell penetration feat)
04 (Epic spell penetration feat)
01 (Enhancements)
03 (Piercing spellcraft – Draconic ability)
02 (Echos of the ancestors – Fatesinger [twist])
03 Greater spell penetration (item)
02 Arcane augmentation 2 (item)
…
50

50 Spell penetration is plenty enough for current content, and even if more is always fun, playing a FvS isnt worth it unless you like FvS. I would rather focus on getting higher spell save DCs, as those are the ones that are the next barrier.

I use crushing despair with heighten to lower their will saves as well as to give them -2 on all saves (which they get if they fail the save). I always cast hypnotism first as it is an SLA and because it stops mobs from moving, followed by crushing despair, wave of exhastion (penalty on dex and thus lower reflex saves) and last a mass hold monster. I do this even if I’ve set up a CC area with otto’s dancing sphere and solid fog (which gives mobs -5 on reflex save). If I use Otto’s dancing sphere and there are mobs who doesnt have crushing despair, I recast it to make sure they stay dancing as long as possible.

Crushing despair is one of the best debuff spells in game, as it gives your spells a +2 bonus on your spell save DCs as well as a short term debuff to will save. Always cast it heightened, is my advice.

I wouldnt bother casting hypno on dancing mobs, as the debuff effect only lasts 5-6 seconds.

[Ryan]

Excelent info Jan – it is of great help.

I think I will end up with 47/49 ish Pen this life as I only have 2 PLs – I have invested heavily in the enhancement line meaning I have 3 from there (but you are aware of the high cost in points).

I didnt realise a mob failed save against C Despair was like a +2 DC boost – I shall cast it heightened from now on

One thing that stands out (regarding CC areas) is Aggro. With CDs, Hypnos, Solid Fogs, Mind Fogs/ Balls, CoDs Wails (maybe not so much Wail as its currently bugged) it seems to me that a Wiz is likely to grab all the aggro.

I guess that if the CC collapses and you dont have a Timmy around then the Wiz is going to have a lot of angry mobs wanting to bash his/ her head in – is this a correct assumption? (im talking EE) How do you deal with said aggro – kite through the CC whilst spamming debuffs?

For the benefit of any Swords that dont have much arcane experience or have never rolled one and are reading these threads thinking it looks really complex and tough to be an Arcane please dont be put off – we are talking Epic Elite. I can only think of two EH quests where such heavy CC is nice.

Im sure to have some more questions in the future, but thats it for now.
Thanks again

[CaT]

Such a wealth of information, thank you Jan and Legend for your kind contribution with gear and strategy! It is so nice when we can exchange this type of knowledge

Yes the debuffs are really handy to use in epics. I usually use Mind Fog before casting Otto’s Sphere of Dancing. Then I can drop a Mass Hold knowing I lowered the enemies saves by 10. At that level the spell conflicts a bit with some other good spells, but I managed to fit it in. Technically you can scroll Crushing Despair (again a level where there are multiple nice picks) but that doesn’t work much in eEs if you get hit.

The best defensive spell in eE is Displacement. Keep it always on whenever there is a fight going on.

There are a few spells I also like to use a lot in eEs: ones that give negative levels unless immune/DWed (from all I use Necrotic Ray, Circle of Death, Energy Drain and Wail of the Banshee as they help a lot in dropping tougher opponents), Prismatic Spray (it does not even check for SR with 2 rays instant killing, another turning to Stone or Fear, but you still need to pass the DCs) and finally Otto’s Irresistible Dance (yes has SR and it is targeted at only one enemy, but Orange named are not immune and you can completely shut them down with this alone). All those above worked fine for me even when I was heavily underleveled on my Wizard18/Rogue2/Epic1 in 25 level eEs with random PUGs.

In the end just debuff, debuff and debuff before you stop trash on their tracks for the melees to tear them apart. Otto + negative levels for mini Bosses. Stack Electric+Cold on Bosses. Keep the group hasted and you are golden

P.S. Oh, and I also use Gust of Wind to remove enemy spell caster’s persistent spells like Otto, Wall of Fire and fogs but careful since it also clears yours. Always succeeds!

[Sinaefay]

Yes, playing a caster in EEs will have mobs aggro on you, and that is why having good saves is a must :). GH, blur, stoneskin, jump, FF (spell or item), displace, DW (spell or clickie), PRR (even just 10-15 is better than nothing), dodge, ghostly and actively dodging attacks all comes in handy when your tactics go according to plan or goes haywire.

Re: Mind fog, mobs gets a save vs it, which means that it is of very little use in ee’s due to mobs very high saves.

[Ryan]

Hello Swords

Ive rezzed this thread in light of the new level cap and enhancements.

What sort of max Int/ DCs are our Wizzies reaching now.

Mantrax WF AM is sitting at 60 Int with 55 Necro and 51 or 52 Enc – given that my alts are usually lacking a bit compared to Jan, H and Legs casters Id be interested to hear what I should be aiming for.

Whats the DC break point in the Stormhorns? I struggled in an off destiny on EH so I can only imagine EE is going to be a nightmare

Cheers in advance

[Author]

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